Comments on: Chinese Project Notes 7: How To Read Books That Are Too Hard For You + Crossing the OS Rubicon /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/ You don't know a language, you live it. You don't learn a language, you get used to it. Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:09:19 +0900 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.1.13 By: デイビッド /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-15882 Sun, 08 Feb 2009 06:22:44 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-15882 This is totally late on this post, but, I guess anyone reading these comments might be interested in an alternative to the sticky-things. Using posted notes instead, which you can then write on, and have the readings there in the book with you. I’ve not used any books where the readings weren’t shown yet, but I’ll get there eventually. I use posted notes all the time with the チャレンジ小学国語辞典.

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By: All Japanese All The Time Dot Com » Secrets to Smoother SRSing, Part 4: Collect ‘Em to Throw Away /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-10373 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:01:29 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-10373 […] in your SRS, but also to items that you were planning to put in. Perhaps you read a book and marked it up. Perhaps you collect interesting kanji or phrases in a notebook. But you can’t be bothered to […]

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By: 涙 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-9990 Fri, 15 Aug 2008 08:40:54 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-9990 Learning English using katakana sounds pretty interesting, actually. If this Japanese thing doesn’t work out for me, maybe I’ll just try to mess up my English instead.

Anyway…
Khatz, can you recommend any Japanese books on programming? I’m trying to nipponize my personal library, but I just don’t know what to look for. I suppose I could go for translated versions of the books I already have, but even then, I don’t know their Japanese titles. orz

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By: Netta /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-8459 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:54:40 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-8459 Hello!

It’s me once more. (Sorry)
I was wondering, how did you learn the tones? Were they hard for you? I cannot find an effective way to learn or remember them.

Thanks (again) in advance.

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By: khatzumoto /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-8196 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 20:28:00 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-8196 Learn characters….FIRST.
Learning Chinese without Chinese characters is like learning English with katakana…ridiculous.
Seriously, I don’t know what people are learning if they’re not learning Chinese characters, because whatever it is, it’s not Chinese.

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By: Netta /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-8193 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:41:52 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-8193 Thanks so much! But I have one final question, sorry:

I was told that it is best if I learn everything other than the characters and save those for last. Is it true? I find that I pick up characters and new words and phrases at the same time just by watching Disney movies, as you did. I believe that I have answered my own question, but would still appreciate your input. Thanks again. C:

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By: khatzumoto /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-8190 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 11:00:25 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-8190 Yeah, I think it would work. I mean, I would follow it; I am following. There are only 3 principles. The Three Laws of Linguistics, if you will:

1. Have fun.
2. Always do stuff in [target language] that agrees with principle 1.
3. Follow principles 1 and 2 all day every day.

The more geeky version goes:

1. A human may not bore herself or allow herself to become bored.
2. A human must read/hear/listen to/speak stuff in her target language, and it may not violate the First Law.
3. The First and Second Laws must both be obeyed, all day, every day. Allowances are made only for situations that would impair your ability to obey the Second Law.

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By: Netta /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-8184 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:43:58 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-8184 Hello!

I am beginning with Chinese and was wondering if I should follow the same method that you recommend for Japanese. I am not studying Japanese but was directed to the site as a reference to how I should go about learning Chinese. What do you recommend? I apologize if this question is out of place. Thank you for your time.

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By: khatzumoto /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-3471 Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:47:43 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-3471 @Max
>Can I ask how long it took you to learn the 4280 characters you started with?
It took me a while. At about 2500-3000 I started learning sentences and doing characters at the same time.

>doing the extra 1000 in RTK 3 before going onto sentences
You could if you want. Most people who are done with RTK1 are often raring to go with sentences, but if you want to get those extra kanji now, it wouldn’t be a bad thing at all. Go for it!

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By: khatzumoto /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-3470 Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:44:17 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-3470 @Charles
>kill two birds with one stone
That sounds like a brilliant idea. Definitely definitely definitely go for it.

>the amount of katakana
It will. コンピュータ、インターネット、インストール、ドライバ・・・

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By: Charles /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-3466 Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:08:01 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-3466 Hi Khatz,
Not sure were to put this but since I see that you are now in Chinese OS territory, you’ve finally conveinced me to swap my safe English OS for an adventurous Japanese OS (all Windows). My question is somewhat related. I’m in the IT field and I spend far more time studying for IT certs than studying Japanese. I figured that I could *theoretically* kill two birds with one stone if I studied for my IT certs in Japanese. Any thoughts on that? (I’m mainly looking at the MS stuff and I assume that it would be quite painful at first but get better with time… also, the amount of katakana may lessen the blow). As always, thank for your inspirational help:)

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By: Max /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-3462 Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:55:08 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-3462 Hey Khatzumoto,
I’m getting to the finishing stages of RTK 1, and was wondering what you’re opinion was on going ahead and doing the extra 1000 in RTK 3 before going onto sentences. I run into kanji from book 3 pretty often.

Can I ask how long it took you to learn the 4280 characters you started with? My measly 1800 have seemed to take an eternity.

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By: khatzumoto /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-3455 Tue, 16 Oct 2007 15:00:08 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-3455 James,

It depends on the context, but it’s basically something along the lines of “the man looked around nervously”…Do you have the rest of the context?

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By: ジェームス /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-3434 Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:43:56 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-3434 こんにちは、ジェームスです

ちょっと聞きたいことがあります。以下の文章の意味は何でしょうか?

(男は周りをはばかるように見回した)

困難なのは 「憚る」という語。色々調べたがどうやらピントがこない。

意味を知っている方がいらっしゃたら是非是非教えてください。

よろしくね

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By: quendidil /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-3433 Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:52:33 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-3433 Well, seeing as 漢字 are not foreign to me, my opinion is rather skewed for a 漢字-newb foreigner; I can’t say at all that it works, it just seems to me that way.

At any rate, any form of the Heisig method is decidedly better than how we native 漢字-users learn new characters at school – by copying rows of characters dozens of times. We take about 10 years of education to master all the common characters, very inefficient compared to the Heisig method.

Seeing as you, a foreigner who hasn’t had any prior exposure to 漢字 before trying out Heisig’s method, have memorized the shapes and meanings of around 4000 characters with the no-reading method, your opinion is definitely worth more weight for the foreign learner of Chinese/Japanese than mine.

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By: khatzumoto /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-3432 Sun, 14 Oct 2007 09:58:04 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-3432 @quendidil
Thanks for your comment. I have had many people share that opinion with me…I personally found it easier to do it the Heisig way, even for Chinese, because while there is a stronger sound-character relationship than with Japanese, and fewer multiple-reading characters…there were enough exceptions, enough non-patterns, to make it frustrating (and slower) for me personally to attempt to do readings at the same time.

So, this is me speaking as just one guy, who went from seeming to have 0 chance at Chinese literacy (I failed miserably at my first Chinese class at university because I was fixated on looking for a way to memorize the characters long-term, and not just for the upcoming test), to using a variation of the Heisig method and becoming a kanji nerd, able to understand, write and read characters of arbitrary number and complexity. If Heisig’s method can be said to be a divide-and-conquer approach, then his was the division that worked best for me: one adult with no strong phonetic associations with Chinese or Japanese at the time.

However, like you said, it may well be not be that much of a stretch to learn reading and meaning together, and I would join you in recommending that any curious person give it a try: they may be pleasantly surprised. Some people have also suggested learning a single kun-yomi reading while learning characters in the Heisig way for Japanese…

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By: quendidil /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-3431 Sun, 14 Oct 2007 09:24:06 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-3431 Reading shounen manga and children’s books are also very helpful for learning readings, since furigana are on most of the kanji.

Just my 2yen but honestly speaking, as a native speaker of Mandarin, I think that learning the reading of a Chinese character at the same time as its meaning is not that much of a stretch if you are familiar with the four tones, because Chinese characters on the whole have only 1 reading; those with 2 are usually those with a more archaic reading which is somewhat closer to Middle Chinese, which you probably won’t use in most situtations. e.g. 給与/给予 is ji3yu3 instead of ge3yu2. These words are rather rare though, we don’t have the 呉音・漢音・唐音・訓読み difference in Chinese. This of course, applies but to Chinese, if you’re learning Japanese, I’d say follow the classic Heisig method.

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By: khatzumoto /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-3430 Sun, 14 Oct 2007 03:18:29 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-3430 Haha! Ikari Gendo.
I’m really excited he (and Timothy Richardson) are finally doing it. My only teeny, tiny complaint is that they only do 3000 chars total…plus, the first book is only coming out with 1500 chars or something…

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By: Kumori /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-3429 Sun, 14 Oct 2007 03:16:01 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-3429 Hello khatzumoto!

So whats your opinion about the new hanzi books Commander Heisig is publishing?

(…you once mentioned that you mentally picture James Heisig as being black. For some reason, I always picture him as being Gendo Ikari. That’s why I address him as Commander Heisig.)

Bye bye!

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By: Sutebun /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon/#comment-3424 Sat, 13 Oct 2007 04:55:27 +0000 /chinese-project-notes-7-how-to-read-books-that-are-too-hard-for-you-crossing-the-os-rubicon#comment-3424 Try this amazon link.
www.amazon.com/Spy-Pen-Deluxe-U-Light/dp/B0006GKG66/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/105-7464116-4650040?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1192251170&sr=8-3

They’re UV light pens that write ink only visible under the light. There’s probably different brands out there you can find and ones that work better than others.

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