Comments on: Git up, Git up, Git Down, JLPT is the Joke in Yo’ Town: Why I Hate the JLPT and Why It’s a Waste of Your Time and Money

By: JadelyJade

JadelyJade — Thu, 11 Dec 2014 07:39:06 +0000

I absolutely agree with your last point. It shouldn’t be a test that motivates you to learn a language, it should be the language itself and all it carries along with it. I’m still really new with Japanese and have been studying for nearly 2 months solid. Just a few minutes ago I was watching “Detective Conan” and during the ED noticed the Kanji for 込 in 「込む」. Going back, I noticed that it was followed by a ま-も character meaning it must have been a conjugation of the verb. Now I’ve seen it used in the context of surrounded, and when I came to the conclusion of that context, it felt really good, and I got a good rush of dopamine from it.

Now I wonder, when I was a kid, was this what it was like to continue to learn English? Every time I could associate the word with new contexts and feelings, did I get this same dopamine rush? Was I just always stoned out of my mind because of all the dopamine from all the English words I was learning? Maybe this is what fuels the intrigue and desire to know what people are talking about when they use a word in a way unfamiliar to us. Maybe, just maybe, when someone uses a word like “becomes” in an atypical way such as “that hat becomes you”, we continue to ask “what do you mean?” for the sake of even the tiniest burst of dopamine, giving us a good bit of high, and fueling us to continue to wonder what EXACTLY people mean by what they’re saying.

I don’t know, but I do know that learning is the most exhilarating thing in life for me, and to learn an entire language, culture, and outlook on life is simply the greatest thing I can imagine. To constantly see and experience new contexts, and broaden and even narrow those contexts. It’s simply so grand.

Ahh~ I love it so.

By: Ten Reasons Why Getting Used to Languages is Exactly Like Baking Cookies | AJATT | All Japanese All The Time

Wed, 20 Nov 2013 23:07:05 +0000

[…] Git up, Git up, Git Down, JLPT is the Joke in Yo’ Town: Why I Hate the JLPT and Why It’s a Waste… […]

By: Aki

Aki — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 06:33:16 +0000

I absolutely agree the JLPT is a poor test, and it encourages mediocrity in my opinion. First of all, N5+4 are useless cause you can’t do SQUAT with it in reality. N3 I don’t mind existing hypothetically cause you should be able to hold your own in any conversation by this point if you study holistically. N2 I dislike cause it’s just a stupid stop between N3 & N1 and doesn’t prove anything.

I have never, and never intended to take the N1 JLPT (I’ve never done N2-5 either)….

However I’m aiming to practice as a doctor in Japan. I learned yesterday that to take the National Medical exams in Japan as a graduate of an overseas medical school (Australian), you must have an N1 pass.

so feck.

By: Danchan

Danchan — Sun, 07 Jul 2013 11:01:41 +0000

Took N1 today. The listening component in particular was really too easy.

By: Victoria

Victoria — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 04:42:31 +0000

Oh, and I meant to say to Khatzumoto… thank you for making me laugh about this. If the laughter can continue until Sunday is through I’ll be a happy woman.

By: Victoria

Victoria — Fri, 05 Jul 2013 04:35:29 +0000

Taking it Sunday, because people in HR departments value it irrespective of its value. Suspect I will fail, but refunds are not available so I will take what I’ve paid for and see how much work there is to do before next time. Fortunately, the J.TEST – a similar test that is available more than twice a year (twice a year! what is wrong with you people?! from now on TOEIC tests should be limited to twice a year in this country, in protest, and held only at least an hour from applicants’ homes… no refunds…) exists and through taking it I have identified some areas where my study approach needed to be improved. I am confident what I’m doing now will enable me to jump through this hoop of compliance at some point in the near future. But I didn’t learn that by taking the JLPT. It could’ve taken me years to learn that way, especially since the results are so under-detailed by comparison to the J.TEST scores.

The JLPT, like so many things Made-In-Japan, is a test of compliance. It’s a test to make sure you understand that even where there is no logical justification for you to waste your time, you must do it anyway simply because it is expected. I will be immensely pleased when I no longer have to indulge this triumph of power-play over genuine educational value. And don’t worry, JEES, that time will most certainly come.

By: Jess

Jess — Fri, 22 Mar 2013 22:57:49 +0000

Now this really, really makes me want to take the TOEIC and the TOEFL, just to see how well I go. Does it cost money?
And I am going to take the JLPT once I am fluent in japanese to how well I go. As long as it doesn’t cost much or is free.
By the way this is an epic and inspiring site, good work! I do actually have multiple things that I want your opinion on, (although if it doesn’t agree with me I’ll probably ignore) so I will email you when I can be bothered.
Thanks for the inspiration! I am in the 400’s with my Heisig kanji.

By: Success Story: Just Two Weeks Of AJATT Immersion Revolutionized My Japanese Speaking Life | AJATT | All Japanese All The Time

Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:59:21 +0000

[…] Twp weeks of immersion and fun have pushed my Japanese speaking comfort level further than years of boring and unnatural textbooks and addiction to external valuations through test scores and other unnecessary benchmarks […]

By: irmoony

irmoony — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 18:28:05 +0000

While I might have no experience with JLPT, as my Japanese is nowhere near good enough yet, I have taken similar tests in English (not my first language). Yes, it might not be the same, but I bet there are similarities. And what I think is Khatzumoto’s point here, is that being able to pass JLPT should not be THE goal for a Japanese learner. Yes, if you’re fluent in your target language, you’ll probably be able to pass such a test with little to no trouble. But I also know lots of English learners that get excellent grades in various examinations and their speech is still riddled with mistakes (not that mine is perfect, far from it).

Basically, if your goal is learning Japanese, you’ll eventually reach a level when you’ll be able to pass JLPT (so you’ll have your proof), yes, but you’ll also be able to do so much more in this language by then. But if your goal is to pass a test, then you’ll probably pass it eventually, but that’s where your knowledge of the language is going to end – with textbooks and graded examinations.

As to whether Khatzumoto had failed JLPT when writing this post, well, that’s only for him to say :p

By: Ian

Ian — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 03:40:46 +0000

Worthless LOL.
Consider this, how many people have you met that “know” Japanese but can barely order a drink at a bar?
While the test is arguably worthless from learning perspective, the fact is when you are making any kind of application, people want proof.
Sure you might have interviews and such to show your ability, or they might just throw your application in the trash.
Remember people in Japan assume no one can possibly learn their language (except for maybe Koreans and Chinese).
When it comes to the test, in my experience on JLPT 1 and 2, the questions have very clear right and wrongs. If you think there are 2 or 3 possible correct responses you simply aren’t there yet.
The reading and listening sections both make the 1 correct very answer obvious to anyone with sufficient skill.
On a final note, given that the cost of the test in both money and time is nominal, I have never once heard anyone who passed JLPT complain about it. However I constantly hear people that have failed it very badly go on rants about it. As a result I strongly suspect that khatzumoto had just failed the JLPT when making this post.

By: Catherine

Catherine — Sun, 25 Dec 2011 23:02:26 +0000

I actually have to take the JLPT to go to this college I want to go to in Japan. :/ I reallly want to go to this college though so..yeah. >w<

By: rowena

rowena — Mon, 05 Dec 2011 01:02:21 +0000

i’ve taken yesterday’s JLPT. just for the sake of experience. went there with an open mind.
but, you’re absolutely right! it’s a friggin’ waste of time. it was a huge fucking joke.
the questions, well, at first i was being amused. but later on, it got pretty annoying. it got so fucking annoying.
and i was like, wut? this is it?
i took N4. why, i’m a my-pace kind of person so, i just laze around, listening to jpop, and watching random doramas and animes, reading random Nihonjin’s blogs on the net, seldom touching my Nihongo learning materials. i have installed Anki, but i find it too boring. can’t stand it for more than 10 mins. -_-”
so yeah, i wasn’t very confident with my Kanji knowledge.
but, i think i’ll do it again. i’ll take N2 next December.
if i think i can go for N1, i will, too. 🙂

By: dip-C

dip-C — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 16:16:16 +0000

I think there are a couple of things that should be taken into consideration, but are missing.
One point is: Languages change, much faster than the specifications of tests. It’s a simple fact I’ve been confronted with while learning French at school in the mid-1990ies. I’m a native German and the relationship between Germans and French has always been pretty tricky, much like the Japanese and the Koreans still struggle today, but it has become so much better after WWII, probably not only because of a friendship treaty, but also the idea of the European Union.
My French book had been published in the early ’70ies, which implies that the concept must’ve been penned in the 60ies. In the 60ies, the main purposes of choosing to learn French were: a) not having to learn latin b) for going on vacation c) doing business with the French (probably…). The European idea had not yet emerged and you could feel it throughout the textbooks. The biggest part of things you learned was dealing with touristic stuff. Going camping, understanding the history of the castle you were standing in front of, interpreting for your parents, which was not neccessary since my parents were very active organising events and exchanges with the French twin-town ever since I was little. I had been used to French and had wanted to talk French and talk to my family’s French friends about ‘normal everyday things’, they even had children only a few years older than me. But I couldn’t. I was stuck with the tourist attitude of my textbook and teachers that apparently didn’t belive French was anything more than a compulsory second foreign language. It was not about actually speaking French (my spoken French is pretty much ok), but reproducing the grammar and vocabulary as if it merely were some kind of math problem.
Two years later, my younger sister started learning French, too. And she finally learned it with a new book. While that did not change the teachers’ attitudes, it still provided a much better approach. The book did not start with “things you need to know when staying at a hotel in France”, but dealt much more with the issues of being an exchange student.

Another point I’m missing is that, although my French book was a horrible example, modern books have several intentions aiming at different aspects of the language.
My English book was a pretty good one, actually. It also featured the ‘exchange student’ situation as an introduction to both, the language and the culture (starting with the british, but also, althought rather briefly, other parts of the anglophone world with focusing on the US for two years later on).
One of the more underrated aspects of language are sociolects. Concerning this, it’s the aim of language teaching that you are able to appear as educated as possible, thus raising the bar to an ‘elaborate’ way of speaking and writing. That also tries to give you the possibilty to be able to understand highly official or academical texts and speeches. And it’s crucial.
‘Lowering’ you level of speech is much easier than only being able to speak like a pre-schooler, but trying to read an academic paper or even just the explainations for customs at the entry. Please remember that, and I think it’s not limited to Germany, most native Germans are puzzled when confronted with reading a law. That’s a German quite of its own, rather archaic at times.
So, since the aim is teaching you the formal variation of the language, it’s the aim of the test to measure that.
Every day language is not the same. If formal language was a glass full of water, every day language would be a glass of water with a few gulps missing. You can always easily drink or pour some water to make the glass only half full, but it’s more complicated to go back to a full glass when there is no water you could pour into the glass, isn’t it?
For some time we had an exchange student from the German School in Mexico city in my class. She spoke the language that is typical for textbooks and there was absolutely nothing wron with her German. She got really good grades on her tests and exams, even when that had been a German essay or an interpretation of one of the shorter works of Kafka. She got along perfectly. The only ‘downside’ was that she kept sounding like our parents because she had missed some of the more recent changes in spoken language, but picked them up after a month or two.

By: Are You Woman / Man Enough To Read This Post Till The End? Well, Are Ya???! « T.G In Tokyo

Sun, 03 Apr 2011 14:46:18 +0000

[…] in no particular order so I may very well “discover” a post from 2007 today), called Git up, Git up, Git Down, JLPT is the Joke in Yo’ Town: Why I Hate the JLPT and Why It’s a Wast…, I totally related because it was the qualifications-for-a-language story all over again. […]

By: Jason

Jason — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:34:42 +0000

道をヨロヨロ歩いているチンピラもヤンキーもできるよ、このテストを。

Any thug or gangster down the street can probably easily pass JLPT level 1…..yeah…tell that to your Japanese teachers..

By: Mike

Mike — Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:53:19 +0000

Khatz should really add a huge warning label at the top of this post. With all of the immigration changes coming in and the Japanese love of certifications you will not be the last to be rejected for a visa due to lack of proof of Japanese ability.

I hate standardized tests, but so many recruiters and HR departments want to see that certification that the time and money are trivial in comparison to lost opportunity.

By: Jason

Jason — Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:35:04 +0000

Here’s a suggestion:

Don’t take ANY JLPT tests below N1 until you are absolutely fluent..I mean freaking native level fluent.

When you reach that stage, then go take the test.

It will probably be a walk in the park.

By: Tyler (Brokenvai)

Tyler (Brokenvai) — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 01:15:50 +0000

If it’s required for your field of work, do it and get it out of the way. Otherwise, trash it.

Those who study Japanese for the JLPT will be proficient at JLPT testing, and envy others who can actually function in a -Japanese- environment. As seen by those proficient in Japanese: the JLPT is almost an insult.

If you need the test, you don’t need Japanese.

By: maus

maus — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 23:03:12 +0000

For your entertainment:
I too used to pride myself in exalting my fellow language learners to neither worry nor care about the JLPT. ‘You’re fluent enough! –Just keep the $50!– It’s such a hassle driving to New York (to take it!)’ And time after time I proudly navigated myself through Japanese language opportunities by my own wit and language ability(?), surviving keigo-laced interviews, inaudible Japanese language phone calls, e-mails and the like. Even managed to earn acceptance into a legit senmongakkou. However, when my senmongakkou applied for a certificate of eligibility (在留資格確認証明書） on my behalf, Immigration told them I wouldn’t be issued a visa without JLPT 2 or higher (or 6 months at a Certified Japanese program, or 12 months at a Japanese university– my academic year abroad didn’t cut it). Man alive, how I wished I’d taken the JLPT! Jumping through that one hoop and shelling out the USD$50 for a JLPT certificate would have saved me a lot of wasted time and effort in the long run. So, 日本語を頑張っている皆様、ビザが下りない恐れがありますので充分にご注意くださいますようお願い申し上げます！

By: swedmonkey

swedmonkey — Mon, 03 Jan 2011 15:21:46 +0000

Alright, I do understand that a mere test doesn’t prove your “real” fluency of a language by any means. I also believe that you shouldn’t completely ditch it though. I mean, if you are looking for a job and having passed JLPT1 is required for most of them; then go for it. I mean, if you are already fluent, studying some piece of schoolbook-grammar shouldn’t prove to be THAT difficult.

Also, I salute to AJATT, I think it’s a really awesome method to learn any language. BUT, I also believe that reading some old books about grammar can give you a good foundation to stand on. Japanese is my third language; I am Swedish. And yeah, I learned English from school, and I find that having that piece of grammar in the back of my head has nothing but helped me to get that awesome intuition of when a sentence sounds “right” or wrong. Haha now because I’ve said all this I’ve surely gone and done some newbie mistakes here and there, but w/e. Anyway, I really love this site and your posts are incredibly motivating, khatz. Don’t ever stop writing! ;P