Comments on: Mixing Languages As A Transitional Phase Before Full Proficiency /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/ You don't know a language, you live it. You don't learn a language, you get used to it. Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:09:19 +0900 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.1.13 By: Christina /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-1000057189 Tue, 27 Aug 2013 16:20:24 +0000 /?p=500#comment-1000057189 As someone who speaks Portuguese, Spanish and Italian are definitely NOT close enough to be dialects. I can kinda understand people in Spanish and Italian, but definitely not comprehension.

Now if we’re talking mainland Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese – now that’s a dialect.

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By: Kimura /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-146157 Mon, 17 Oct 2011 23:49:30 +0000 /?p=500#comment-146157 「英語と日本語」の言葉というのは「jinglish」じゃない。。。「英本語 (eihongo)」だ。。。

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By: Tyler /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-72109 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 21:53:15 +0000 /?p=500#comment-72109 Yeah, it’s actually pretty cool. Because Stu Jay Raj begins teaching his students by teaching them to do something like watch CNN and interpret/reexplain it, so that you get your mind unhooked from words so you can convey meanings. In the same interview I heard this from, he also spoke about how your native language can actually limit your thoughts and understanding. So I can see when you’re using a multitude of languages at the same time, it’s like using the perfect words in the perfect order so you can perfectly convey meaning.

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By: Lavita /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-32140 Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:37:20 +0000 /?p=500#comment-32140 Thank you for responding to my question. I suppose I won’t completely rule out translators. I’ll give it a try once in while, see what kind of japanese pops up. I think as long as I keep in mind that it isn’t correct Japanese, I might be ok. Thanks again.

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By: Drewskie /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-32073 Mon, 18 Jan 2010 04:23:39 +0000 /?p=500#comment-32073 That’s an interesting idea, actually. I don’t know if I’d trust a translator, either. Actually, after an embarrassing incident on 2ch I made it a rule to never put ANY stock in the output of one.

But I wouldn’t say it’s really “bad” or anything. It’s actually a pretty interesting idea, and there may be times where it’s really helpful. I could see finding an article on a topic I want to be able to talk about and passing it through, just to see what kind of vocab comes up. Then you could google the words for sentences, or SRS the definitions, or what have you.

I just wouldn’t SRS anything directly from the page, that’s for sure. As for whether or not its worse than English…Man, tough question. My inclination is to fall back on the idea that input is best when its by and for native speakers. Input is really all about adjusting to how they talk, and how they put together sentences and all that. When you try to get English out of a translator, it’s a garbled mess most times, so it’s not really how we talk, right? So avoid it?

Sheesh, I don’t know. 😛

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By: Lavita /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-32072 Mon, 18 Jan 2010 03:45:47 +0000 /?p=500#comment-32072 One more question for you, if you don’t mind. (A bit off topic from the post, but this has been bothering me.)

Is it bad to use google translate to turn english websites into japanese? I know the translations are not grammatically correct, but is isn’t it more important to look at Japanese rather than english? Even if it might be bad Japanese?

I hope my question makes sense…

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By: Lavita /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-32070 Mon, 18 Jan 2010 03:21:15 +0000 /?p=500#comment-32070 Drewskie, thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I see what you sayin’, and it makes sense. Thanks again.

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By: Drewskie /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-32065 Mon, 18 Jan 2010 02:09:21 +0000 /?p=500#comment-32065 Lavita, Khatzumoto doesn’t answer questions in comments much anymore, so I’ll field this one for ya.

English is never ‘okay’ in an immersion environment. To paraphrase a now-missing Khatzumoto tweet (woulda linked you straight to it, eh), “If you MUST use English, hit it with Japanese suppression fire.” In other words, when you inevitably have to work with English, keep yourself tethered to Japanese, a little bread-crumb trail to lead you back home when you’re done. In that sense, the add on you’re referring to is pretty good.

But as far as making English “okay,” not so much. Japanese is Japanese and English is English. This post is more about output, and Khatz is discussing a possibly-helpful gray area. On input, though, it’s rather black and white.

As far as I know, anyway. If I’m going to answer questions on behalf of Khatz like this, I should probably qualify all of this in a similar way: You have no reason to take my word for it. This is just my take.

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By: Lavita /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-32012 Sun, 17 Jan 2010 05:34:26 +0000 /?p=500#comment-32012 Hey Khatzumoto,

Is it ok to read some english in moderation if we use this mixing language system? I stumbled upon a Firefox add-on that changes words like ‘read’ into ‘読ead’. So would this make some (emphases on some) english ok?

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By: アメド /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-31544 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:23:55 +0000 /?p=500#comment-31544 “Fluency is over-rated” I remember seeing this in the forum koohii. Somebody was stating that once you’ve reached a certain level of skill in a language, you’ll eventually start either going to another language or wanting to learn more in that language. This is pretty much true. I was recently looking at my SRS anki deck. And it stated that i’ve been doing SRSing sentences for 4.8 months. It hasn’t been even 5 months and my listening and reading is great. But obviously there’s still things i cannot read or understand 100%(yet) I remember when i am trying to listen to songs a few months ago i seriously couldn’t understand what they were saying. Nowadays i am able to pic separate words i KNOW and link them together in order to understand what they are saying. My sentence deck contains 5650 sentences. I’m pretty happy with my progress before, b/c Now i can seriously understand Japanese pretty well. I’ve been working on key things such as writing. Kana to kanji production cards. I want my writing skills to grow along with my other skills. But i think once fluency is achieved or at least certain goals are reached, people will start wanting more in the language. It’s seriously a never ending journey,battle, and it is of course a life-skill. But the great things of learning a language is opening the doors to “new worlds” that you can explore,understand,relate to, learn and grow form. So my thoughts of gaining fluency when i wanted to start learning japanese are much different then it is now. Right now all i want is to do as much as i can well enjoying the process, the exposure to japanese in all forms(songs,games,anime,movies,drama’s,shows,etc). Because eventually there will be a point where i’ll be at the top(fluency) and i’ll look back and say “Wow why was i so worried about getting fluent?, it’s not so hard, everything just needs to be done daily+consistently” The immersion effect that i’ve been doing, has proven to me that i can help you in ways you never thought possible. It just grows on you, without much effort actually. I remember the days were i used to be so frightened of not translating sentences. Now that i use monolingual sentences and also decoding them. It just added to my understand of Japanese more. I’m still far from fluent, but for some reason i believe that i’m actually not that bad in japanese as I thought(In understanding+reading wise). It all adds up i guess. The process eventually reaches it’s maximum(well i shouldn’t say maximum, but the goals that ppl have set on themselves will be reached). lol this is funny, i was also looking at the 18-month period that khatz did. It seems i’ve got 18-4.8=13.2. There’s still quite abit of time for me to improve. But the time frame isn’t the goal. It’s process that will get you to goal faster than the time frame set. So there isn’t that much reason to worry(well at least for me, i know in the beginning it can be intimidating, not knowing much japanese, hell for me the only Japanese i knew back then was “subbed anime” japanese lol and now i can understand anime pretty easily. I’d say 80% of it nowadays. Finally, for ppl who are in the beginning of the journey to learn japanese, don’t worry about the goals all that much, just worry about the process of getting there and doing it daily. Small conistant acts daily are far more effective then large amounts.

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By: ke6i /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-31485 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 11:14:54 +0000 /?p=500#comment-31485 まず堅い日本語しか書きません。  未来ペラペラに書きますでしょう?

Rather than mixing, maybe we start with crappy, stiff, mistake-laden, Japanese. And then eventually it gets better with practice? For most of us, the transitional language is the much maligned stiff textbook Japanese.

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By: アメド /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-31336 Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:41:34 +0000 /?p=500#comment-31336 just bought ff13!!!!. Can’t wait till it comes, but it seems that I’ll have to wait another, week….. Ah man, so much school work has began. Going to be a lot of multi-tasking+time-boxing coming soon! But with the SRS this will be an easy semester.

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By: Ed /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-31293 Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:39:25 +0000 /?p=500#comment-31293 Words of wisdom from Will Smith:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLN2k0b3g70

If you want something, go get it!

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By: ke6i /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-31222 Sat, 09 Jan 2010 22:33:46 +0000 /?p=500#comment-31222 >You gained fluency in Japanese in 18 months, but
>Chinese seems to be taking longer.

多分、中国の文化はアニメより面白くないんですから。。。

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By: アメド /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-31220 Sat, 09 Jan 2010 22:24:13 +0000 /?p=500#comment-31220 @Scuba
Yea my understanding has grown very much in these 5 months. I can understand general Japanese speech easily now, aside from complex ones. I wouldn’t really know how to rate my own reading ability. Sometimes i think i’m getting good, but i’ve only scratch the surface of reaching any high level of japanese yet. But FF13 when i was watching the trailers and all i could understand it pretty well, without subs. So with subs it’ll add to my understanding. The game is expensive but i’ll save up around 100$ and buy it. I hear it’s worth the price.

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By: Pierre Le Fou /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-31185 Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:36:54 +0000 /?p=500#comment-31185 了解!I understand what you saying bro. @wildweathel

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By: Pierre Le Fou /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-31184 Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:33:50 +0000 /?p=500#comment-31184 皆さんveryone should 使se 感じ-lish。そのJAM is the 糞hit. ALSO been writing blogs in Kanjilish. www.thezeeree.blogspot.com and tonoshikoto.blogspot.com come tell me what I am doing WRONG! PLEASE! lets start this Language/ LEARNING EXCHANGE!

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By: Scuba /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-31178 Sat, 09 Jan 2010 04:37:06 +0000 /?p=500#comment-31178 アメド- FF13 is expensive, even here in Japan, but totally worth it.

There are a few confusing parts so far, but the game is pretty easy to follow with just a basic understanding of Japanese.

All of the dialogue is voiced so if your kanji reading ability isn’t all there yet (like mine) it will help.

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By: アメド /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-31148 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:42:39 +0000 /?p=500#comment-31148 cool, yea graphical it’s soo good. The subs always for some reason, add to my understanding then just hearing it randomly. I haven’t got any new in a while in terms of games, due to school,work,etc. But this one i definitely will get, looks so good graphical.

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By: Drewskie /mixing-languages-as-an-interim-to-full-proficiency/#comment-31121 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:59:55 +0000 /?p=500#comment-31121 アメド、

This is actually the first FF game I’ve ever owned, so I can’t really compare it to the others in terms of gameplay. I will say that my first reaction to the visuals was “This is the Avatar of video games.” On a technical level, it still falls short of Crysis (the game upon which all are judged), but when you take everything together–tech and style–it’s just gorgeous. Easily the prettiest game I’ve ever played.

In terms of language, Japanese subs are on by default. I find this is actually really helping my listening, since it encourages me to follow along as the characters say their lines. —Just don’t get too focused on those subs! The characters are so emotive and detailed, you can’t spend all your time reading! The game’s plot so far has been easy to follow despite anything with a hint of complexity flying right over my head. Maybe the best part here is if something REALLY throws me off, a summation of every chapter’s events is a few buttons away in the main menu. The game also slowly introduces you to its features in tutorials that move as slowly as you need, which for me meant if something was really confusing me, I could stop and pop some things into a translator for some quick help.

To sum up, I’d say this game represents a tremendous body of language. Everything is stored for you as you progress. There’s a ton of speech. Using a method where I basically type things as I hear them into a wordpad doc open on my free monitor (two monitors get split into PS3 and PC), I’m finding it incredibly easy to wind up with a good chunk of sentences.

AND I’M PLAYING A VIDEO GAME. AJATT IS AWESOME.

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