Comments on: On Grammar

By: Ben

Ben — Wed, 28 Jun 2017 06:40:41 +0000

This demonstrates the problem with learning grammar right here. You’ve stated that a majority of native English speakers would say “if you would have said”, and they don’t even know it’s wrong. Who said it’s wrong? If the majority of native speakers don’t think it’s wrong, whose business is it to tell them that it is? Nobody’s business, that’s whose. It is not, in fact, wrong to say “if you would have said”, nor is it wrong to say “I wanna lay down”. This is how native English speakers speak, and it is native English speakers that determine what is correct English, not whatever grammar guide you read that told you those sentences are wrong. The purpose of grammar is to describe the rules of how a language is used. If a grammar guide disagrees with how the majority of speakers use the language, then it is the grammar guide that is wrong, not the other way around.

By: Dos and Donts of learning Japanese | Jon Ken Po

Dos and Donts of learning Japanese | Jon Ken Po — Tue, 24 Sep 2013 23:20:01 +0000

[…] Focus on studying grammar (at least at the […]

By: Japanese Sentences (Core 6k) | Jon Ken Po

Japanese Sentences (Core 6k) | Jon Ken Po — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 23:25:05 +0000

[…] by example how grammar works rather then study all of the rules and try to apply them. There has been much written about this, so don’t take my word for it. If I have a few extra minutes […]

By: Insiya

Insiya — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 01:06:57 +0000

I love Google Translate because when I enter some phrases in Japanese on the English side, it shows how to say them on the Japanese side (audio and text)

By: Kimura

Kimura — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 20:08:15 +0000

Hmm… So that’s why, when I’m reading through Tae Kim’s Guide in full-on form, I’m *zzzzzzzz*, but when I’m just reading the sentences by themselves in Anki, it’s もう楽しい?
It also explains why just cracking open Nakama (the textbook we used in my college classes) lately, my first and only thought is “Screw this, I’m gonna watch ChimneySwift fail at Minecraft.”

By: Jason

Jason — Sun, 13 Feb 2011 20:42:24 +0000

Yeah….most Americans are in trouble because they don’t know the difference between “I wanna lay down” and “I wanna lie down”…

they’re in trouble…they’re in some serious shit…they’ll never make it through Life…

give me a fucking break.

By: zach

zach — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 20:44:47 +0000

I gotta admit, Serguei, I knew all those grammar rules except “if you would have said”.

That’s not something I would say, but I didn’t know it was wrong either. 😮

By: Serguei

Serguei — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:36:41 +0000

“you are probably fluent in at least one language: your “native” language. In at least this language, you almost always know when a sentence is right or when it is wrong”

Almost? How many native English speakers confuse “its and it’s”? How many say “if you would have said” instead of “if you had said”? “I wanna lay down” instead of “I wanna lie down”? Probably a majority, even though they have beeen exposed to correct English since birth. If one of your 10,000 sentences is the Japanese equivalent of “if you would have said” and you do not know that it’s inappropriate in a formal situation you are in trouble.

By: Paula

Paula — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:44:20 +0000

Well… I don’t think about the grammar in Spanish… I just speak the right way… then again, Spanish is grammatically very simple. English… not so. Japanese– YES. Thank you… *does not think about grammar. must not.*

By: All Japanese All The Time Dot Com: How to learn Japanese. On your own, having fun and to fluency. » Grammar Does Not Exist

Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:00:42 +0000

[…] the second full article I’ve written about grammar (this was the first). Hopefully I won’t repeat myself […]

By: 涙

Tue, 19 Aug 2008 04:06:04 +0000

~>> I’m glad I’m not the only one who actually enjoys grammar. 😀 Seems like we could both use a good grammar book actually written in Japanese, to pursue our common interest the AJATT way.

By: ~

Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:58:25 +0000

Grammar is like my best friend! Even if it sounds right to say “I’m better than her.” I just have to say “I’m better than she.” or “I’m better than she is.” Don’t bully him/her! ;-;

“here is the overall, abstract set of meta-rules, memorize it, and then use it to crank stuff out”

Hahaha, that’s so true but I love it anyway. I was actually pretty surprised when I learned the past tense for verbs… it was so… easy. Before whenever I heard about it, it was described as being like the most complex thing on the planet. At the same time, memorizing sentences just kills me. @_@ For me, learning by sentence is just a way to enforce grammar. I guess the learning method just depends on how you learn, and most people don’t think about grammar.

By: Jimmy

Jimmy — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:36:27 +0000

Hey, thanks a lot! You know, probably more than anything, your encouragement has done a lot to revamp my Japanese game. Now on to do some sentence reps! 🙂

By: khatzumoto

khatzumoto — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:29:16 +0000

There’s nothing wrong with an explanation at all. As long as it doesn’t get in the way, like you said when the gears are clanking, something is wrong.

>isn’t the definition itself kind of like a grammatical explanation?
I guess that’s a matter of definition 8) …but, sure. What I understood to be “grammar” was the whole “here is the overall, abstract set of meta-rules, memorize it, and then use it to crank stuff out”. In real life, that doesn’t work, it’s not how humans work, I think…Computers are all about that.

>I’m just trying to make sure I get on the right track.
As long as it’s in Japanese…it’s always the right track :). Don’t worry, you’re not walking some tightrope with “certain death and crappy Japanese” on either side. Really. The key is just to keep things in Japanese and have fun doing it.

By: Jimmy

Jimmy — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:18:51 +0000

I agree that grammar is often a hindrance. I know it from personal experience; when I play the “put together a Japanese sentence game” I take forever to say anything and when I finally do, it comes out unnatural and awkward. I also notice that when I speak English with foreign language learners I can almost hear the clanking of the rusty gears turning in their heads.

However, how are you supposed to learn some things without some kind of explanation? For example, things like “んです”　or “って”? I mean, they’re often not found in dictionaries, and if they are, isn’t the definition itself kind of like a grammatical explanation? I know questions like this must be obnoxious, but I’m really not trying to be annoying; I’m just trying to make sure I get on the right track.

By: khatzumoto

khatzumoto — Fri, 22 Dec 2006 02:15:52 +0000

Hey James!

Congratulations on finishing Heisig, that’s an outstanding achievement!
Thanks for your comment (and for the sweet method name).
Yeah, I’m pretty anti-textbook (/how-to-use-a-japanese-textbook), and the folk at AntiMoon are absolutely right: textbooks are often so sanitized that they give you an awkward, unnatural version of a language that’s light years away from the real thing. If you’ve ever seen a textbook for English learners then you’ll know what I mean. It’s like, yeah, it’s English, but who on earth says “how do you do?”.

Having said that, your textbook is
1) All in Japanese, and
2) Has sentences
If, on top of that, it is
3) Fun
Then there’s no need to summarily throw it away. You can certainly mine it for sentences. BUT if it ever bores you, then don’t feel like you have to “plough through” it. Japanese was meant to be fun; you’re sacrificing enough every time you choose something Japanese over something in English, you need not sacrifice joy as well.

There are two really cool quotes attributed to Bruce Lee; I don’t know for sure whether he actually said them or not, but they have some value and bear repeating:

>> “Do not deny the classical approach, simply as a reaction…”
>> “Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.”
We probably don’t want to deny textbooks for the sake of denying them. But if they suck, then it’s best to be rid of them.

Anyway, congratulations on doing all your stuff in Japanese! That’s wonderful. You’re obviously so good and so persistent already that fluency is just a foregone conclusion :).

By: james

james — Fri, 22 Dec 2006 00:21:06 +0000

Hello khatzumoto,

I have started following your method or the 文章方法 as I am calling it. However I am already an intermediate learner and I finished Heisig Book 1 over a year ago and so I have moved straight on to learning sentences wothout translation. Even in just two weeks of using the sentence method my progress has increased rapidly. I honestly believe thinking in Japanese is getting closer and closer. I read on the antimoon page that using a textbook is not recommended. The textbook I currrently use is ニューアプローチ中上級日本語 (entirely written in Japanese). I am wondering if I should give it up and just concentrate on the sentence method?

what would your advice be?

james