Comments on: SRS and Self-Determination /srs-and-self-determination/ You don't know a language, you live it. You don't learn a language, you get used to it. Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:09:19 +0900 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.1.13 By: SRS: How NOT to Delete Cards | AJATT | All Japanese All The Time /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000063664 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 10:37:06 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000063664 […] Those of you who read any AJATT at all will notice that I am a huge advocate of card deletion. I am a believer!…In the healing power of throwing away. It’s digital danshari (斷捨離=だんしゃり) for the SRS generation. But, as in all things, while there are many right ways to do it, there are also some wrong ways. Some ineffective ways. Exhibit A — also sprach ganko: […]

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By: Amphy64 /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000057200 Tue, 27 Aug 2013 18:19:41 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000057200 There’s some stuff you have to get through one way or another, though. Like my RTK cards – they can be boring as hell when there’s a lot to get through, should I delete them all even though I KNOW they’re helping my Japanese? RTK isn’t the only method and doesn’t suit everyone (it does suit me), but if you want to be able to read Japanese, you have to learn kanji somehow or other. I like kanji, I’m happy with my stories, but I personally think it’s placing an unreasonable demand to expect everything to be totally fun, all the time, regardless of your own mood, current situation, or anything else. It can be a burden in itself as a requirement, it’s faster if I just deal with it and do the cards rather than mess around wasting time sticking shiny pictures on all them (I’ve tried this) to try to make them more exciting. And faster means I can more quickly move on to something more exciting, anyway.

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By: Agent J /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000053857 Mon, 08 Jul 2013 11:06:50 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000053857 Shut up nerd.

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By: r0nnin /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000053855 Mon, 08 Jul 2013 09:34:19 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000053855 Excuse me if I sound harsh, but I believe that your previous attitude with SRS (throwing new stuff at the SRS without learning it previously) is the reason why so many people is unable to use SRS efficiently. As I understand it, the SRS is not a learning method, it is just a tool that help us to retain an already learned info in our long term memory. Learning methods based in our preferent learning styles are a whole different thing (basically what you started doing recently, kind of).

About the whole “let it go” thing, theorically it seems a great idea, but it’s unattractive at first sight. In any case, there is this guy (huliganov.tv/goldlist-eu/) which has his own language learning method where he also uses it (the “let it go” thing). I like his explanation about the benefits of doing it more than khatzumoto’s (even while his writing style is less dynamic than khatzumoto’s).

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By: Livonor /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000053789 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 14:47:20 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000053789 I come up with a different idea, I was used to SRS stuff from the web, but now I starting falling in love with mangas and only want to get stuff from them, but I obviously need to type everything on my own, with takes me a hell of time, so while I type I try to “pre-learn” the words by focusing on them and try to make some memoncs for the kun-yomi and related them with the context of their meaning instead of typing and looking up them mechanically without even looking to them like I used to do, and it’s working, now I go thorough the “new” cards in one go cause I already know them.
This is my “magic pill”, a simple, easy-to-apply idea, which is just one between several other but when applied changes everything.

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By: 魔法少女☆かなたん /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000053787 Sat, 06 Jul 2013 13:36:41 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000053787 Okay, the inner economist pixie inside me wants to speak. There is this concept called “sunk costs”, where you’ve already invested (time) in something, waiting for a future payoff. And then when it doesn’t come, well, it’s natural to feel that your work must have been for something, and stubbornly cling to an investment that brings nothing but loss.

If you want profits (language acquisition excellence), then each individual entry needs to give you more than it takes away (your precious time). I think it takes making a few (translator’s note: few means a lot of) mistakes to comprehend this, as well as seeing that, yes, you will see that word again in a much better sentence. Sometimes, the entries can be fixed; sometimes, if the shoes look like feet, you must delete! … well, kick that rascal to SRS purgatory, anyway.

So, what I’m basically saying is that from an economics standpoint, this advice is pretty sound.

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By: gankoo /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000053706 Fri, 05 Jul 2013 04:50:07 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000053706 When I experimented with SRS across a period of about a year I found myself repeating the following pattern: Take interest in a method (i.e. cloze), or a subset of the language (i.e. a specific drama, or dramas in general, etc.); create anywhere from a few dozen to a few hundred cards; work with them for a period lasting somewhere between a week and a couple months; find myself growing so disinterested with working on every card that I would delete the whole deck and start again.

After a few iterations of this, I felt like all the time spent gathering and making these cards was disproportionate to the amount that I was learning, because I was wiping the slate almost, if not completely clean, too frequently.

I leave the analysis to you, fine ladies and gentlemen of the internet.

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By: Ian Price /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000053667 Wed, 03 Jul 2013 16:44:31 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000053667 Anki has a feature whereby if you fail a card too many times, it calls it a leech and suspends it. These are the low hanging fruit of the deletion tree – grasp them 🙂

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By: Translate from spanish to english /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000053648 Tue, 02 Jul 2013 19:30:15 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000053648 What can you say about the text to speech feature of ANKI? Honestly I enjoy that-

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By: Hetingson /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000053647 Tue, 02 Jul 2013 19:15:41 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000053647 “To really learn how to delete, you need to learn how to make 1,000 cards in a few hours. Start with awesome materials, and boil them down mercilessly via successive waves of deletion”
This is what I do…only to girls

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By: Romuś /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000053614 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 22:06:35 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000053614 It’s scientifically proven that people are bad in letting go of things. They need to be repaid multitude of what they paid for something in order to let go of that thing.

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By: emk /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000053603 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 18:19:39 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000053603 I can think of two big reasons why people don’t delete enough:

1. They don’t have enough faith to let a word go. Seriously, if it matters, you’ll see it again, and you can make another card then. And if you never see it again, why would you put it in your SRS?

2. They spent a lot of time and effort making cards, and hate to throw them out.

I understand (2). I’ve got some French sentence cards that I typed in by hand, and I hate to delete them. Even worse are my Egyptian hieroglyphic cards. You ever tried to typeset hieroglyphics? It’s hours and hours of staring at 14 identical bird symbols, trying to guess which alphanumeric code to use, and messing with LaTeX. I have over 500 these cards, and they all look something like this if I select “Edit Card”:

m-a:k sw-w Hr:1 i-p-Y1\R270 mn:n-mn:n:t-E1:Z2 I1:t-Z3

There’s no way I’m going to start deleting those cards. If that makes me a hoarder, so be it.

I didn’t learn to delete enthusiastically until I started using subs2srs. I took my favorite movies, ripped them, and turned them into Anki cards. This gave me about 1,000 cards per movie (with sound!). But most of those cards were garbage. So I learned to delete. I’d set goals like “delete 50% of all cards on the first review, and another 50% during the next two reviews.” I learned to delete bad cards, boring cards, hard cards, easy cards, and anything that wasn’t completely awesome. And sure enough, after a few review cycles, I had almost nothing but awesome cards left. Then some of them became boring, and I deleted those, too.

To really learn how to delete, you need to learn how to make 1,000 cards in a few hours. Start with awesome materials, and boil them down mercilessly via successive waves of deletion. By the time this is done, you’ll believe in the power of deletion.

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By: Greg /srs-and-self-determination/#comment-1000053593 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 16:03:27 +0000 /?p=25459#comment-1000053593 As Woody Allen said, “I am not afraid of death, I just don’t want to be there when it happens.” And so it is with language learning: “I want to learn another language, I just don’t want to actually do any *learning*.”

You’re never going be able to manage a basic conversation if you don’t know a few hundred words. You’re never going to be conversational unless you know a few thousands words. And maybe you need to know 10,000 words to be ‘fluent’ (whatever that means). Basically, you have lots of learning to do.

I prefer to use Anki & SRS – I’ve tried so many ways, and this is by far the best. If you’re not using SRS, if you think it’s a chore, then what are you using? If you’re reading books, or studying textbooks, and learning lots of vocab that way – awesome, then maybe you don’t need SRS. But if your vocab isn’t constantly growing, then you’re not learning enough – maybe ALL learning feels like chore to some?

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